Why I think the Rays will move to Tampa

TampaBayRowdies · **Joined:** Wed May 16, 2007 11:30 am **Posts:** 782

right now i work in westshore, just off the interstate, and live in south tampa....because of this i have no problem going to 20+ games a year...

i'll be moving to new carrollwood in december, and might be working further north too...i can't fully predict how that will impact my attendance, but i'm pretty sure i'll be far less inclined to zip over to the trop on a wednesday to watch edwin jackson match up against the royals...i'd probably restrict my visits to the bigger-ticket games or weekend games...

i'm not the stat-head that many of my fellow posters are, but as far as how emotionally vested i am in this team, (unfortunately) i'd rate myself in the top 15-20%...i frequently organize my evenings with rays games in mind, will check my phone constantly for updates when i can't watch a game, etc....despite all that, i'd guess between the distance and the beauty of HDTV the Rays will lose this die-hard fan's revenue for 8 to 10 games due to 25 minutes each way and 15 miles, because i simply can't leave work that early that often, and have to be conscious of my commitments the morning after.

maybe orlando is a stretch, but new tampa is a massive missed opportunity....lots of dual income households, many with young children...the perfect target market and the family entertainment that would also capture the next generation of fans is just out of reach...

Rhino · **Posted:** Mon Jun 30, 2008 9:00 pm

Sam Joxer wrote:

Saying that people coming from Orlando would come to games if they were in Tampa rather than St. Pete is ridiculous.

Its still a significant drive to Tampa, St.Pete being only a half hour-45 minutes longer.

Saying that you prefer to drive to Tampa rather than St. Pete from Orlando is like saying you would prefer to be bludgeoned by a 40 pound hammer than a 80 pound hammer.

Its true, but come on, that logic blows.

But perception is huge, and people from Orlando perceive Tampa as much much closer than St. Pete

kastofsna · **Joined:** Mon Jul 04, 2005 6:58 pm **Posts:** 834

Sam Joxer wrote:

Saying that people coming from Orlando would come to games if they were in Tampa rather than St. Pete is ridiculous.

Its still a significant drive to Tampa, St.Pete being only a half hour-45 minutes longer.

Saying that you prefer to drive to Tampa rather than St. Pete from Orlando is like saying you would prefer to be bludgeoned by a 40 pound hammer than a 80 pound hammer.

Its true, but come on, that logic blows.

probably the worst analogy i've ever heard. getting hit with a 40 pound hammer would blow, getting hit with an 80 pound hammer would be much worse. good lord

no one wants to drive an additional 80% when the initial drive is an hour and a half

~*~anyway~*~

putting the stadium in Tampa would rule, i'd definitely go to more games than i do now, which is like 3 a year

BobDernier · **Joined:** Wed Jun 07, 2006 5:26 pm **Posts:** 115

They had mentioned on the NESN broadcast that attendence is up 40% compared to last year. To be at the halfway point and have that type of jump (obviously still have a ways to go) is very encouraging.

pheenix11 · **Posted:** Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:54 pm

Quinton McCracken wrote:

pheenix11 wrote:

Hawkeye wrote:

Quote:

I don't get the people who live in Pinellas and say they wouldn't drive to Tampa.

And that's the same excuse I hear all the time from Tampa folks for coming across the bridge this way? And I've heard it too many times on sports radio, "ooo, it's too hard to come across the bridge, it takes over a 1/2 hour." Boofrickin'hoo! I do it for Lightning/Storm/Bucs games, don't you think it's about time Tampa folks come this way? And it takes at least (with excellant traffic which isn't good in rush-hour) 45-55 minutes for Bolt games.

And do you really think St. Pete's going to let the Rays just up and move when they have a signed lease for the next umpteen years?

Number of People in Tampa, Pasco, Hernando, Polk, and Orlando > Number of People in St Pete

Why do you think the Bucs and Bolts are in Tampa? It would be worth it to the team to just buy out the lease.

Taking 3 rural counties and two cities and comparing it to St pete is hilarious.

Take another approach. Using the census figures from The Office of Economic and Demographic research (which granted are 1 year old) you'll get a better picture

http://edr.state.fl.us/population/popul ... pril07.xls

Using your "us vs them" stategy, you should group Hillsborough, Pasco, and Polk and pit them against Pinellas, Manatee, and Sarasota.

Using that data the Tampa grouping does get the edge, but by a 560K margin.

If you really are desperate to include Orlando into your sample they list Orange County at 1.1 million people.

But consider this before you go throwing Orlando residents into your demographic for a Tampa ballpark. Those people don't support the Magic, so why would they drive 84 miles down I-4 to see a baseball game, when there are people in Tampa who wont drive the 23 miles it takes to get to Tropicana Field? How many people living in Tampa drive to Orlando to see the Magic? Good luck finding any. There's a figure I'd like to see: Hillsborough County attendance at Orlando Magic games. They have a good young team too. Dwight Howard, Jameer Nelson, Rashard Lewis & Co. That is a draw by NBA standards.

IF someone has access to that attendance figure I'd love to see it.

I've got news for you, Pasco and Hernando are growing a helluva lot more than St Pete is. Pasco is one of the few counties around that is still hiring teachers because families with kids are moving here every day. That population difference is getting larger by the minute.

And speaking for most of us "northerners" I would rather drive down the Suncoast Parkway/Veterans Expressway into Tampa than take 19 over to 275 into St Pete.

As far as Orlando, they supported the Magic real well the past year when they were actually good. They were over capacity at 100.3%. In fact the people in Orlando hate the Magic so much they are building them a new arena.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/attendanc ... asonType=2

And yes I would drive to Orlando to go see the Magic. The recent Celtics run really got me back into basketball, so much so that I am looking at some partial ticket plans for the Magic for next year so I can take in a few games.

I don't know about you but an extra 45 minutes of driving is a huge difference. I have nothing against St Pete but if you look at the Tampa-St Pete-Clearwater MSA it is in the "corner" so to speak. If you include the Orlando-Kissimmee MSA it is even further from the center. It is just geography that a stadium in Tampa would be more centrally located to more people. I honestly do think it would entice our friends in Orlando to make a few more trips each year and it is still plenty close enough for the people in Pinellas.

jwgator · **Posted:** Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:01 am

TampaBayRowdies wrote:

i'll be moving to new carrollwood in december, and might be working further north too...i can't fully predict how that will impact my attendance, but i'm pretty sure i'll be far less inclined to zip over to the trop on a wednesday to watch edwin jackson match up against the royals...i'd probably restrict my visits to the bigger-ticket games or weekend games...

My advice to you, don't move out of South Tampa. This is the greatest place in the world. Carrollwood is only a setup for huge disappointment. I think you, me, and Selgy are the only ones on the site from South Tampa (off the top of my head).

Sam Joxer · **Joined:** Sun Dec 19, 2004 8:27 pm **Posts:** 958

Wow, you people are really fickle. I asked some friends I know, if they would go to an event 2 hours away significantly more than an even 2 hours and 30 minutes away, and almost all of them answered no.

2 hours is a long drive, and almost everyone I talked to said the same thing, they wouldn't drive to either. If they were forced to go, they didn't care, both took a major dent out of their wallets, and although it would be nice to go to the 2 hour against the 2 hour and a half, that still didn't mean that they would drive 2 hours for entertainment.

Flat out, having the Stadium in Tampa or St. Pete means we will only attract diehard fans from Orlando. Mom and Pop are not going to take their kids to a Rays game on Sunday.

kastofsna, I dont know how you drive, but if you can get from Orlando to Tampa in an hour and a half, then you can get to St. Pete in less than 30. How you get an 80% increase in time is beyond me.

Also, why in this argument is Manatee county being ignored? It has a significant population, as well as one that is increasing rapidly, and doing this would be giving fans from Sarasota the finger.

As for Selgy's original idea, I love it. It is one of the best locations for public transport I have seen, which is a major fault of almost every other idea. I mean, Buses are actually the backup in this site, not the plan, as it seems is in almost every other idea. That, and the view would be nice. The land dosen't seem to be being used, but there is always a fight for that(though I think this would be one of the least, next to the landfill). Very well laid out, thank you for posting Selgy!

Quinton McCracken · **Joined:** Thu Mar 02, 2006 2:05 am **Posts:** 35

pheenix11 wrote:

Quinton McCracken wrote:

pheenix11 wrote:

Hawkeye wrote:

Quote:

I don't get the people who live in Pinellas and say they wouldn't drive to Tampa.

And that's the same excuse I hear all the time from Tampa folks for coming across the bridge this way? And I've heard it too many times on sports radio, "ooo, it's too hard to come across the bridge, it takes over a 1/2 hour." Boofrickin'hoo! I do it for Lightning/Storm/Bucs games, don't you think it's about time Tampa folks come this way? And it takes at least (with excellant traffic which isn't good in rush-hour) 45-55 minutes for Bolt games.

And do you really think St. Pete's going to let the Rays just up and move when they have a signed lease for the next umpteen years?

Number of People in Tampa, Pasco, Hernando, Polk, and Orlando > Number of People in St Pete

Why do you think the Bucs and Bolts are in Tampa? It would be worth it to the team to just buy out the lease.

Taking 3 rural counties and two cities and comparing it to St pete is hilarious.

Take another approach. Using the census figures from The Office of Economic and Demographic research (which granted are 1 year old) you'll get a better picture

http://edr.state.fl.us/population/popul ... pril07.xls

Using your "us vs them" stategy, you should group Hillsborough, Pasco, and Polk and pit them against Pinellas, Manatee, and Sarasota.

Using that data the Tampa grouping does get the edge, but by a 560K margin.

If you really are desperate to include Orlando into your sample they list Orange County at 1.1 million people.

But consider this before you go throwing Orlando residents into your demographic for a Tampa ballpark. Those people don't support the Magic, so why would they drive 84 miles down I-4 to see a baseball game, when there are people in Tampa who wont drive the 23 miles it takes to get to Tropicana Field? How many people living in Tampa drive to Orlando to see the Magic? Good luck finding any. There's a figure I'd like to see: Hillsborough County attendance at Orlando Magic games. They have a good young team too. Dwight Howard, Jameer Nelson, Rashard Lewis & Co. That is a draw by NBA standards.

IF someone has access to that attendance figure I'd love to see it.

I've got news for you, Pasco and Hernando are growing a helluva lot more than St Pete is. Pasco is one of the few counties around that is still hiring teachers because families with kids are moving here every day. That population difference is getting larger by the minute.

And speaking for most of us "northerners" I would rather drive down the Suncoast Parkway/Veterans Expressway into Tampa than take 19 over to 275 into St Pete.

As far as Orlando, they supported the Magic real well the past year when they were actually good. They were over capacity at 100.3%. In fact the people in Orlando hate the Magic so much they are building them a new arena.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/attendanc ... asonType=2

And yes I would drive to Orlando to go see the Magic. The recent Celtics run really got me back into basketball, so much so that I am looking at some partial ticket plans for the Magic for next year so I can take in a few games.

I don't know about you but an extra 45 minutes of driving is a huge difference. I have nothing against St Pete but if you look at the Tampa-St Pete-Clearwater MSA it is in the "corner" so to speak. If you include the Orlando-Kissimmee MSA it is even further from the center. It is just geography that a stadium in Tampa would be more centrally located to more people. I honestly do think it would entice our friends in Orlando to make a few more trips each year and it is still plenty close enough for the people in Pinellas.

The growth rate in the surrounding rural counties is not news. But in the cacse of pasco and hernando you are placing too much emphasis on growth "rate" and not enough on actual numbers. Forget Orlando for a second OK. Planning a publically funded stadium around those guys is a giant mistake. Hillsborough and Pinellas combined have 2 million residents. Whether you put a stadium in downtown st pete or on Dale Mabry you will get a draw from a couple other nearby counties. That is enough to get a good draw. The Orlando people no matter where it is located are a weekend draw. The average 20-40 year old business man gets off work somewhere between 6-7 on a weeknight. That guy isn't going to a weekday game ANYWHERE in the Bay area. But they will drive on saturday or sunday regardless of where the stadium is. People in St Pete don't pass on trips to Disney because Disney isn't 30-40 minutes closer.

Its not our decision to make. Its the owners. unless a st pete site is on the water the people won't get to vote.

Wrays55 · **Posted:** Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:44 am

Quinton McCracken wrote:

Its not our decision to make. Its the owners. unless a st pete site is on the water the people won't get to vote.

Exactly. Thinking a Tampa/Hillborough Stadium will be proposed for 2010 is a pipedream. Only if it fails in Pinellas will they then think about Tampa. The group "leading the search" for a new stadium consists of city and county leaders. City meaning St. Pete. County meaning Pinellas. They are not going to propose a new stadium in Tampa. Good Idea though Selgy. It's a great site.

pheenix11 · **Posted:** Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:34 pm

Population 2007

Hillsborough: 1,174,727
Polk: 574,746
Pasco: 462,715
Hernando: 169,070

Total: 2,381,258

Pinellas: 917,437
Manatee: 315,108
Sarasota: 372,073

Total: 1,604,618

Bottom line that is 50% more people who would have an easier ride if the stadium was in Tampa instead of St Pete. That doesn't even include the 1 million+ people in Orange county.

Wrays55 · **Posted:** Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:50 pm

pheenix11 wrote:

Population 2007

Hillsborough: 1,174,727
Polk: 574,746
Pasco: 462,715
Hernando: 169,070

Total: 2,381,258

Pinellas: 917,437
Manatee: 315,108
Sarasota: 372,073

Total: 1,604,618

Bottom line that is 50% more people who would have an easier ride if the stadium was in Tampa instead of St Pete. That doesn't even include the 1 million+ people in Orange county.

Don't forget about the 5 million+ that live in the Atlanta area that would also have an "easier" ride to the game.

pheenix11 · **Posted:** Tue Jul 01, 2008 6:54 pm

Wrays55 wrote:

pheenix11 wrote:

Population 2007

Hillsborough: 1,174,727
Polk: 574,746
Pasco: 462,715
Hernando: 169,070

Total: 2,381,258

Pinellas: 917,437
Manatee: 315,108
Sarasota: 372,073

Total: 1,604,618

Bottom line that is 50% more people who would have an easier ride if the stadium was in Tampa instead of St Pete. That doesn't even include the 1 million+ people in Orange county.

Don't forget about the 5 million+ that live in the Atlanta area that would also have an "easier" ride to the game.

Yeah its a tough call weighing that against the whales and dolphins in the gulf who have an easy commute now.

Selgy · **Posted:** Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:18 am

I just submited this thread to the ABC Baseball people

http://abc-baseball.com

I also forgot to mention that right next to my proposed location is a boys and girls club. You can set up a promotion to let the kids in to games free. Builds loyalty and a future fanbase.

gobux10 · **Posted:** Mon Jul 28, 2008 7:02 am

Selgy wrote:

I just submited this thread to the ABC Baseball people

http://abc-baseball.com

I also forgot to mention that right next to my proposed location is a boys and girls club. You can set up a promotion to let the kids in to games free. Builds loyalty and a future fanbase.

Are you going to try to get on the committee? I heard they were going to chose one fan from Hillsborough. You put a lot of work into this, and I think you speak for a lot of the Rays' fans in Hillsborough. I think you should try!

skywire · **Posted:** Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:23 am

Matt Silverman on WFLA 970 radio this morning said that they are going to need a retractable roof and that the new cost is going to be in the 500 - 600 million range. Didn't say why they couldn't use the sail design in a different location.

This higher price tag could really change the dynamics of the whole situation, and possibly open up a reason to move across the bay...

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